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 Post subject: narcissism
PostPosted: 21 Sep 2009, 10:28 

Joined: 12 Sep 2009, 19:12
Posts: 21
There seems to have been some sort of sea change occur in the world of fetish perhaps linked to the internet.

The internet facilitated a few phenomena which allowed these changes. It created a larger borderless international community of people who are self identified as fetishists. Along with this, the net allowed users to display a fetish persona, create a profile which was almost completely built around their fetish identity. On the one had these profiles create the impression that the writes are the actual fetish personas out there, and even if you don't see them on Main Street, you can be assured that your neighbors are these very fetish persons behind closed doors. In fact, many people claim their fetish persona to be the real them and what you see on Main Street is who they must be to "survive" in a world which condemns such individualistic expressions.

Some fetishists have seen commercial possibilities and market themselves to fetishistic voyeurs. They might also become somewhat interactive fetish partners of sorts. And then there are the "events" which are now staged around the world where fetishists gather to engage in BDSM scene play, meet others, and show off their own regalia.

On the one hand one might argue that the net has enabled people with perv to find a compatible partner. Nothing wrong with that, and especially since we can't ID pervs on Main Street, the net serves this purpose quite well.

But it also has been a platform for the expression of narcissism which looks to me like exhibitionism on steroids. Although I believe it is healthy to love oneself, exhibition seems to go beyond healthy self love to the need to shock and receive affirmation, admiration or attention in the extreme.

Isn't this narcissism, and if so, is it representative of some underlying issue or "problem"? Is this preponderance of exhibitionism and narcissism having a synergistic effect on others who become influenced by what they see?

Why is fetish becoming so public and social? My sense is that fetishes have been around for a long time, but things are changing lately and quite rapidly. I can't tell if this is good, bad or indifferent. But it wouldn't be changing if it weren't for exhibitionists and narcissists pushing this all into the public consciousness (aside from those with naked commercial interests). It appears to me that the genre is getting richer in terms of gear, and "scenes". What does this mean?


Last edited by SanderO on 23 Oct 2009, 18:20, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: narcissism
PostPosted: 16 Oct 2009, 21:04 
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Joined: 14 Aug 2008, 09:35
Posts: 8
Location: Pacific Northwest, USA
SanderO, this is a very rich topic! One I could write about for a long time, if I had the time! ;) To just briefly note though, I think your observations are accurate, and it is a very interesting phenomenon to observe. I think overall, what is happening is that people are finding new ways to express themselves. The need for expression is a law of nature, for all animals, not just human animals. In order to express what lies inside, it is natural for humans to choose a medium of expression, and it seems that sexuality is still the dominant medium in our culture, but now it is taking a new twist, into fetishism in the mainstream. I don't think anything new exists within the human, but the ways in which what lies inside comes out, into some expressive form, are expanding. The sexual medium is expanding also; one's expression through the use of this medium used to be quite narrowly confined, but now, it is much more open, so new forms of expression are appearing.

As for narcissism, well I did a massive research project on that a few months ago in school (I'm in a master's degree program currently, a combination of drama therapy and clinical psychology; the latter only in order to become licensed; otherwise that aspect of psychology is quite boring because it is devoid of philosophical discussion like we are having right here, right now.) in a course on consulting and coaching for corporate executives. What I learned is that term is basically meaningless ;) Ha! That was my conclusion. There are so many different definitions of narcissism in clinical psychology, they are in competition with each other on definitions of narcissism; a totally out-dated term to begin with! I don't think mythological creatures should be brought into medicine! Despite disagreements on definition, various theoreticians and psychologists all seem to agree that it is 'incurable', that nothing can be done about it; that there is no form of therapy that has any benefit whatsoever. Wow! That's interesting; yet another failure of clinical psychology to log in my long list of the failures of medicine to address the human heart and soul. :-)

I think it leads to more accurate discussion if we drop the meaningless term 'narcissistic' and simply replace it with 'emotional immaturity'. No matter what definition of narcissism a person likes, still, at bottom, they are discussing emotional immaturity. This means that the person is trying to fulfill some kind of self-indulgent emotional need of the same sort found in children, clamoring for attention; desperate for approval, etc. It means they are stuck in their personal development and are needing something in order to continue growing into adult. This is not 'wrong', but because it is pervasive it means we live in a society of extremely emotionally immature people! In my experience, I have found that many psychological problems are actually problems of emotional immaturity; that what needs to happen is personal growth, then the 'symptom' disappears by itself because it serves no purpose anymore once a person goes through a process of profound personal growth.

-Vekquin


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 Post subject: Re: narcissism
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2009, 18:50 

Joined: 12 Sep 2009, 19:12
Posts: 21
A definition is almost never fixed in time and for whatever reason the definition of a word is in a constant state of flux. Word use and the most popular meaning for it will wax and wane.

This seems to be especially true with the jargon of BDSM. And in many ways it is interesting and telling about the words used in BDSM speak and vernacular.

For one thing there is the thing where a word with a negative connotation is embraced by a community and used in a positive manner. An example of this is how the gay community embraced the word - queer - which in common usage means - odd. Gays, of course were struggling to be thought of as anything but odd - they wanted to be seen as "normal" yet they took the pejorative and use it almost defiantly to blunt and mock the whole mindset of conformity. That is conformity is normal and how jejune. So let's be queer and be proud of it.

BDSM uses terms such as scene, and play taken from theater and even the innocence of what children do to amuse themselves - they play. How innocent and healthy. We approve and encourage children to play and why should not adults emulate what children do which is healthy - they play. And play for children involves "make believe" pretending to be characters who they are not. Of course there are other forms of child's play but this is certainly a very common one - role play. What about that type of play promotes emotional growth and well being?

Then of course there are the terms sadist and masochist. Both of these terms carry "negative" baggage in their common uses. Yet in the BDSM world of kink these are activities, or roles that are embraced as empowering, cathartic, sexual and essentially positive because they are part of an "understood ritual enacted between consenting adults".

For the masochist one hears claims of endorphin rushes and highs, induced by pain and mental states called sub states all reminiscent of the type of experiences associated with drugs. There is stunningly little development of the positive psychology of the "sexual" sadist or the sadist in a BDSM context. At best one hears the frame that they are there because the masochist needs a sadist. I suppose there could be some sort of neuro-chemical response going on in the sadist. Perhaps you have some insight into that one???

And then there is odd notion of sex and BDSM. It's hardly anything like the sexual activity most people associate with sex. SM might not even involve the sex organs, yet it may be sexual and is often erotic and some experience orgasm. Often the sex organs are abused as opposed to caressed. Coital penis in vagina sex is virtually verboten in BDSM "sex" in favor of anal sex, especially dildo and so forth. Fetish femmes are highly sexualized but rarely seen engaged in kissing or erotic play with men, while the fem en fem is extremely common. One would think that most fetishists are lesbian women from the imagery, yet from what I see the ration if more like 20:1 male to female with interests in BDSM and fetish.

BDSM as a form of sexual expression is more likely described as form or pornography or erotica lacking actual coital sex or the famous cum shot. In fact one fetish - chastity is both about celebrating orgasm, denying it and even feminizing male sexuality.

I suspect the "perversion" of language may confuse people so much that they are incapable of analysis or understanding about the genre or even their own BDSM desires. In the end it's easier to just follow the crowd and the rather rigid protocols in the genre.

I suppose this language thing may be behind the fact that the genre and the psychology is so poorly understood by "professionals" as well as lay person including those who practice BDSM.


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